Elizabeth Platt ([email protected])
Mon, 3 Aug 1998 22:24:36 -0700 (PDT)
On Sun, 12 July 1998, "rob okorn" <[email protected]> wrote:
>With all do respect to Michelle, Popmart is the antithesis of the Joshua
>Tree tour, JT was ultra barebones, sparse lighting, no effects, no
>screens, no b-stage, JUST THE MUSIC and even at the back of a cavernous
>open air stadium the music was loud and clear and last time I checked it
>was about music, not some choreographed boxing spar session in sync with
>the vid with no room for spontaneity.
Sorry, Rob, but I recall the '87 tour quite a bit differently! Methinks
you've swallowed a bit too much of the media's JT-era hype about St.
Bonoface and the oh-so-righteous U2 (and yep, I'm aware the band played up
to that hype for all it was worth--which proves that they could be ironic
long before the Zoo-TV era, even if they weren't totally _aware_ that they
were being ironic...)
The more things change, the more they remain the same, I guess!
Anyways, I recall post-JT concert conversations with other veteran fans,
and frankly, we all saw the JT shows as being quite slick and produced,
compared to previous tours. I also recall a lot of fans griping about the
_lack_ of video screens, after the band moved up to stadiums! (LOL!)
"Ultra barebones"? We just figured that they stripped away the stage
structure to prevent Bono from climbing on anything! Actually, it seems
to have been designed--yes, I said "designed"--to allow an all-round view,
since seats behind the stage were being sold. We all remarked
about how slick and planned-out their stage was this go-round;
obviously there had been a lot of thought put into it, especially
for the arena shows. "Sparse lighting"? Willie Williams' lighting was
bigger than ever, and all carefully synched--choreographed, if you
will--to the set list. For the stadium shows, there were huge scrims or
curtains hung over the walls of amps, with either a flying "U2" or the
Joshua Tree image. "No b-stage"? Hmmm....there was a long "b-stage" set
up in Tempe for the "Rattle & Hum" shoot, and even though it was
ostensibly set up for the cameras, Bono had a *lot* of fun on it! And the
arena shows had that ramp along the _back_ of the stage, and Bono made a
habit of running around back there at every show; on the stadium leg,
there were those long ramps alongside the stage. So there were plenty of
opportunities to get a bit closer to the audience, etc.
And guess what? A lot of long-time fans did nothing but piss and moan
about the JT tour! It was thought to be too damned big, too flashy, too
expensive, too shallow, too staged, blahblahblah. Sound familiar?
It only looks minimalist _now_, in contrast to the last two tours. But
who the hell knew what the 90s would bring, when we were going to shows in
1987? Let's face it, the current perception that the 1987 tour was
_deliberately_ "minimalist" or "stripped down", etc., as some sort of
high-minded *statement*, is a crock. U2 were always chasing after being
big, bigger, biggest, and they were never terribly bashful about it. Yes,
it had a huge impact on the band, their fans, and the relationship between
the two, there's no doubt about that.
As for PopMart, more than a few of us old-timers actually saw the set-up
as stripped down in comparison to the Zoo-era shows--sure, the colors were
lurid, and the video screen was....*big*, but aside from the pre-produced
vids, the whole PopMart staging was quite minimalist, at least compared to
the Zoo-era shows.
And the thread continued in:
>From: "Scarlet Eyes" <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: jt vs popmart, to me its STILL about the music!
>Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 20:33:30 EDT
>
>I was lucky enough to see 1 UF show and 2 JT shows. IN MY OPINION, JT
>(and even UF) were FAR superior to AB or POP shows. Those that agree
>with me know what I mean...It was a different time, different music,
>different emotions, different band...Bono was naive, wide-eyed and
>humble, extremely humble, even during JT.
And in _what_ parallel universe was THIS? :D Sorry, but the words
"humble" and "Bono" are rarely used in the same sentence! Nope, not even
during the Joshua Tree era. Bono was regularly slagged off as an
arrogant, self-righteous little git, and not entirely without
justification, I might add.
>We as fans were different
>people, it was the 80's for God's sake! (that was a joke)
True, U2 fans were different _before_ the JT tour--but that tour is what
changed them, the band, and the whole state of U2-fandom altogether. I
find it odd that some folks insist on upholding the JT era as some sort of
rock and roll Eden, where all was pristine before the "fall" of fame and
power, etc., when in fact it was the JT era that _caused_ the changes.
Let's face it, there are only really *two* "eras" of U2's career to date:
pre-Joshua Tree, and after-Joshua Tree. Before they went "mega" and
after. And how they got to it, then tried to fathom it and cope with it
ever since. They tried to pretend nothing had changed (the Love Town
tour), then went at it head-on, creating the whole AB/Zoo and PopMart era.
Is that oversimplified? Yep, it's oversimplified. But you've seen how
much flak I can get for overly long posts already! ;-) So I'll keep it
simple...
>When I first
>started reading Wire, I couldn't believe how many people preferred AB to
>JT, it was actually shocking to me! But the longer I was on Wire, I
>realized that AB means to some of the younger fans, what JT meant to me,
>both musically and spiritually. And the same goes for those who prefer
>POP over AB. I venture to say that the connection that I felt with JT
>is the same type of connection others feel with AB, or even POP. It's
>very subjective. It was about the music then, and it's still about the
>music, there's just a giant lemon that blocks your view sometimes.
..Or traps the band from time to time! ;-) At least you're not being
_distracted_ by all the props or flashing lights, which seems to be the
case with some old-guard fans who haven't accepted much that the band have
done since "Rattle & Hum". Despite the bigger budgets and excessive hype,
the music has never suffered on the last two tours. In fact, don't forget
the b-stage segment on the Zoo-TV tour(s) completely (albeit
briefly) dispensed with the "visual overkill" concept of the staging; if
anything, some of the songs (e.g., "Redemption Song") were even _more_
"stripped down" and back-to-basics than anything done on the Joshua Tree
tour.
Slan,
Elizabeth Platt
[email protected]
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.0b2 on Mon Aug 03 1998 - 22:34:46 PDT